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Talk:GNY-001F Gundam Astraea Type F
You known I'm not seperatist, but should Fon Spaak's Astrea F (one that rebuilt from Black Astrea) got it own article? Using GN Drive Tau is one thing but several of weapons (NGN bazooka, GN hammer, GN pistol, etc) are never used by original Astrea F. Kuruni 03:15, January 9, 2011 (UTC) RE: It's the same suit Well, I say keep it as is. It looks the same as the old Astraea Type F, and has the same functions, it just runs on a different powerplant. It's like saying the GN Drive T version of the Sakibure is different from the GN Drive powered one. The only difference between the old Astraea and the..crapload of armaments Astraea is the drives. Though the Black Astraea is based off of the original Gundam Astraea. Gaeaman 788 - pilot of the RB-79/FS Ball Full Saber 05:55, January 9, 2011 (UTC) :Is this about splitting Original Type F and Tau Type F of Astraea? In that case, I don't think they should be seperate cos the 00PSE chapter 1 mentioned that as far as the mobile suit goes, the specs are exactly the same. So they're two physically unit suits of the same model. -SonicSP 12:28, January 9, 2011 (UTC) Is it still a General Purpose Prototype? Guys, beta-testing was already finished and Astraea should've be fine-tuned to remove "prototype" from it's title? This leads to a second matter, its armed up with a heavy load of guns and melee weapons; I would classify it as a heavy assault unit, however, I wanted the editors to get their opinions on this one. Thoughts? Taikage - Admin 18:33, June 4, 2011 (UTC) : I'm okay with the "prototype" removing thing. But couldn't it be reclassified as "multi-purpose", just because the heavy load of guns and melee weapons are purely optional. So it can be either an heavy assault or a close-quarter combat MS. HPZ - O.N.E. 18:53, June 4, 2011 (UTC) :I'm for removing "prototype" as well. There's a lot of articles "prototype" should be removed from, honestly, but that's a different discussion for later. As for the different weapons it can be equipped with, maybe "customizable" rather than "heavy assault"? It doesn't have to have all that equipment; it can be removed or added at any time, right? —AscendedAlteran 20:02, June 4, 2011 (UTC) ::Im all for removing prototype but keeping general purpose. The reason is because we have text that clasofies the Astraea as a GP unit. ::And there's another reason as well. Thing is, we now have two Astraes F units maintained by two different groups. Most of the new heavy weaponry style+equipment that makes the Astraea F heavy weapon-ish comes from Fon's custom Tau Astraea F and these equipment was never planned for the original. Fon just tool these weapons from other MS and decided to use it for his Astraea F. ::If I can give two different classification for each Astraea F, I would but that's not possible under the current format. I feel like GP is the more neutral safer alternative for two reasons; first the original Astraea F follows it and secondly it's also followed by the Astraea F's predecessor the Astraea who shares the same equipment set as as the Original Astraea F. ::Besides, as AA argued, one can consider all those Fon equipment optionals anyways, Fon just likes to use the Tau Astraea in a heavy assault manner but the broader definition especially after considering the Original Astraea F's being half of this article should be leaning towards general purpose. ::I'm personally againts using the terms multi optional and such. General purpose should cover even some of the additions. The hammer is a mid range melée weapon, the handguns are classified close range weapons while the Missiles should cover ranged heavy weaponry. The only reason why we're having this heavy weapons discussion is because the way Fon uses the Tau Astraea F, which is essentially by equiping his custom options all at once to enable a more heavier style. The truth is, you can take the Original Astraea equip it with two GN Launchers, a beam rifle and the GN Sword and it will seem like a heavy weapons suit but it's not the design spec. In fact one can argue that "general purpose" as a term already reflects a potential customisable ability. If you were to only use the GN Sword on Astraea, it becomes a close combat suit. Decide to forgo the sword and put two launchers launcher and it becomes a heavy weapons suit, yet the designation purpose should remain the same nevertheless. It's just that Fon conciously chooses to go the heavy weapons loadout all the time with the Tau Astraea but the crux or base purpose o being general purpose should not choose regardless of how the pilot chooses to use it. ::This whole problem arises because Bandai refuses to reclassify the 00I Astraea into a variant by keeping the exact same name. In practice, the Tau Astraea is already a variant with it's many out of spec equipment additions made by the guy who maintains and pilots it; Bandai just refuses to renaming it with a slightly different name simply because they want to make it easier to market the model kit as a single unit.-SuperSonicSP 08:44, June 5, 2011 (UTC) :::Don't they (the 00I version of the GNY-series and Rasiel) have a different name on the MS Genealogy here ? HPZ - O.N.E. 10:19, June 5, 2011 (UTC) ::::I suggest you edit that to make it a html link to the page as opposed to an image link. It would just take space and make the talk page look weird. In any case, it seems to be the only chart or source I know that bothered to make the distinction but otherwise other profiles simply call it as the same exact suit model wise; even performance wise its an exact replica of the Astraea Type F according to the 00P Special Edition Chapter 1. Its probably not much as a real differentiated variant as it is just a change of ownership. As far as our problem goes, this chart will mostly be relevant if we want to take the step of actually separating the Original Astraea F and the Tau Astraea F into different articles based on these names(which I partially support because of the numerous weapon additions Fon made to it). If this were to theoretically happen, then I can support using the Heavy Weapons designation for that one since it excludes the Original Type F. and I guess you can say they are numerous other differenes anyways, like Trans-Am not included and all those seperate infobox entries we can clear out. ::::Thanks for pointing out this chart though I did not know any source prior to this that made the distinction even by name. Now I can at the very least suggest a source reason for a seperate article, alongside all the equipment and tech differences that is. We already have some other variants like 007SG Inspection that are almost identical to 007SG in performance and only has a color differences, even the Tau Astraea F deserves a more seperate page than that variant from a tech perspective I believe since most of Fon's addition are not applicable to the Original Astraea F, who is managed by another group and no longer exists as it is. -SuperSonicSP 11:51, June 5, 2011 (UTC) :::::I'd forgotten how much you like walls of text, Sonic. I'm okay with assigning it "General-Purpose" as well since, with the equipment being to variable, that's really what it is. I just suggested "Customizable" because it seemed to be the best way of describing the Astraea Type F. —AscendedAlteran 13:19, June 5, 2011 (UTC) :::^Sorry , I have a bad habit of making long arguments >_>. But here's something interesting guys, I got that chart translated by a friend and she says it its literally called "Astraea Type F Heavy Armament Type". With this, I REALLY feel like we need to make a separate article. -SuperSonicSP 22:08, June 5, 2011 (UTC) ::::I'm okay with that, but that means that it must be applied to every GNY-00XF and the Plutone too. The Rasiel Unit 2 seems to be differently called (not the same kanji than the Astraea)... Could your friend translate it too ? HPZ - O.N.E. 23:46, June 5, 2011 (UTC) ::::I didn't mean to sound critical, Sonic. ^_^ Put me down as in-favor of splitting the article. —AscendedAlteran 23:50, June 5, 2011 (UTC) :::I'm not too keen splitting the other Type Fs; mainly because unlike the Tau Astraea F, they did not have any major equipment addition (hence they should be almost carbon copies minus Trans-Am and infinite time limit) and Fon barely used them in 00I as far as I'm aware. Having said that, I will not raise an objection if you guys decide to do it. Looking at the chart HPZ posted, the other Tau Type Fs have added on on their names as well. I wonder what it says? -SuperSonicSP 00:35, June 6, 2011 (UTC) ::::Maybe instead of splitting we could do a brief outline in the variants section like we did for a lot of the GNMS before we decided to start splitting the variants onto separate pages? —AscendedAlteran 01:02, June 6, 2011 (UTC) ::::I've thought of that and while I think it would have been the best solution under normal circumstances, it will not solve our designation problem. And then we would have to decide what to do for the infobox, since under such a format usually we make the infobox usually for the main suit. Still, maybe you have something there just that we'll probably have to figure out the exact right tweaks (like what to keep in the infobox for example). -SuperSonicSP 01:42, June 6, 2011 (UTC) ::::The infobox seems to be the biggest problem at the moment. It seems to me the only real issue we're having here is with the MS designation. If that's the case, can't we just use "Astraea Type F Heavy Armament Type" as the name of the variant and then just summarize the weapons its equipped with? —AscendedAlteran 02:07, June 6, 2011 (UTC) :::That seems to be a good idea at the moment. We'll probably have to elaborate most of the differences by text. Its funny how I'm in favor of splitting the page or at least have a different section for the Tau Astraea now because in the above topic I suggested then we treated them like the same suit. I guess I did not thought of the heavy armament and how its kept all the time to be part of the context. :::I say leave it. Equipping a general purpose unit with a bunch of guns doesn't necessarily reclassify it. Besides, all the weapons are optional.Gaeaman 788 - The sign of Zeta leads to a dead end 06:22, June 6, 2011 (UTC) :::By the way, if we do decide to split it to a section or into another article, I think we should use thishttp://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110108174947/gundam/images/1/1c/Gny-001f-fon.jpg lineart next to it. Kinda nails in the "heavy armaments" part of the "Astraea Type F Heavy Armaments Type" huh? -SuperSonicSP 03:48, June 6, 2011 (UTC) :::I'm in favor of using that lineart, Sonic. BTW, there's a similar MS designation issue with the Unicorn Banshee I noticed, if you guys would like to weigh in on the talk page. —AscendedAlteran 12:06, June 6, 2011 (UTC) ::::I agree with that. But what do we do about the Rasiel name ? The GNY-series are all designated by "Heavy Armament Type" but not the Rasiel, I think... HPZ - O.N.E. 12:19, June 6, 2011 (UTC) :::The rest of the GNY we can just change the designation, can't we? I mean, they're not like the Astraea with a dozen different equipment types. —AscendedAlteran 12:33, June 6, 2011 (UTC) ::::I agree perfectly with you for the GNY-series. They're not too much different from their original counterparts (just the "developed from" thing and launch and destruction date which are different, we only have to precise it, that's all). No, the real thing I want to point out is the fact that the rebuilt version of the Rasiel is not designated by the "Heavy Armament Type". If you look closely, you can that the kanji aren't the same than the rebuild version of the GNY-series. I would like to know what these kanjis stand for. It's maybe not that important though... I'm just curious about it. HPZ - O.N.E. 12:44, June 6, 2011 (UTC) ::Let's figure out what we're going to do with the Astraea Type F before we start worrying about the Rasiel. —AscendedAlteran 01:31, June 7, 2011 (UTC) :::I've already outlined my arguments, just a matter of how much we want to split it. Speakin of Rasiel, it just says "Hixar's unit according to my friend". -SuperSonicSP 23:38, June 7, 2011 (UTC) ::::Thanks for the answer, Sonic. HPZ - O.N.E. 12:57, June 8, 2011 (UTC) :::I don't really mind just listing all the variants on the page we've got now, simply because I don't think there's enough of a difference to actually separate them... As for Rasiel, it doesn't sound like there's anything we need to do to it. —AscendedAlteran 23:22, June 8, 2011 (UTC) ::In regards to one of HPZ's post, its important to note that only the new Astraea F has a new term "Heavy Developement Type" tacked into the end. The other new Type Fs just say Fon's unit. They dont have heavy developement type into them, because they dont have the new loadouts like the new Astraea F I imagine. -SuperSonicSP 14:05, June 12, 2011 (UTC) Okay, for now, I'm going to rework the page little-by-little (due to personal time limitations). SonicSP, feel free to tweak the page as I go or give me suggestions as I go. Taikage - Admin 10:35, June 14, 2011 (UTC)